New Regen Nerf!

[Jadakris]

So as I was arenaing my alt team who has noone who is able actually use an apocalypse gem..

This proves quite the hassle when you are fighting regeners who rely on auras (especially ones as abundant as regen auras)

So the Proposal here is a new gem!

One that removes all regeneration auras!


Cost something like 300 Mana 300 Energy.. seems pretty fair imo..

[Smashbros]

no.

the point of apoc, is that you have to sacrifice something to get it. you cant just have everything.

no support

[Sanluciferr]

No we dont want strategy, just be the same and go regen and chat or watch some videos until damage bonus kicks in the switch for damage and wait for a lucky double attack or crit or something like that.

[Gooddevil]

Or make a new gem that have %chance for few seconds to make regen ticks act like a dot.

In nutshell more reg. you have the more dmg you getting for short period of time.

to prevent it , of course resists , cleanse or simply removing auras to lower dmg would work.

Having extremely regeneration in pvp can be dangerous and will make people to balance it

[LadyGaGya]

I like "corrupt regen" idea.

[Hoodrat]

Welcome to Glitchless' new arena.

Regen is here to stay !!

[Master]

FFS can you people not read?... ok I calmed my self down trying to be better on forums in hopes others do the same... Let me take another approach...


Glitch said he sees no reason to change something that has not won arena yet or something like that... So... Give it time and maybe next season we can all see a new change.

Until then, reposting the same exact complain every week wont help anything, just sit back and tolerate the ride until it comes to the stop, if you don't like that ride when its over then go try a another one. However im with and against glitch on this one, Im with him in allowing different builds and strats to win a arena season "if possible" I am against the fact that he bases whats "op" on arena.

I personally don't think a new gem is in order especially one that only takes away a certain gem line and not every gem like the apoc. Doesn't mean its not a good idea though.

I also don't see why people still want to nerf regen when it has been beaten several times in arena... Yes it takes longer to kill them, but you still earn the glory of winning. If you cant tolerate the battle to earn the victory then you don't deserve to win imo.

[Sanluciferr]

Glitch gives us options... You can either start arena right away and get some lead, or you can wait and try to pass up others when you decide to start... There are benefits of starting right away and tokens is one of them, plus farming bonus's gold,resources ect... The length of the arena matches are based on our toons not on glitch system.. He did the arena damage bonus because we asked him too. You all got to realize there comes a point in time where he just needs to put his foot down, we ask, he gives, then we ask for something again... After this arena season he may or may not change things.... There is nothing new to this... I been playing many years and its the same thing, he eventually balances things out to where every build gets their turn while the other builds cry that their turn is over or not up yet... Just roll with the changes and enjoy the game until its your turn for your OPness.

[Master]

omg... why do I have a feeling I have read that before?

[Glitchless]

Originally Posted by Sanlucifer

No we dont want strategy, just be the same and go regen and chat or watch some videos until damage bonus kicks in the switch for damage and wait for a lucky double attack or crit or something like that.

We are more concerned right now with this ^, i.e. the possibility for arena fights to take so long and get boring for the time when regen is favored by the masses. We'd consider a means of speeding up the fights, perhaps a gem that, while in play, multiplied the PvP multiplier, hastening the eventual result, but not necessarily changing it. We could use some feedback from other players, as we already know Sanlucifer's stance, on whether the prominence of regen in arenas right now is constantly making for long, drawn-out fights.

That being said, there is a group of people who only fight in arena for the farming bonuses, who will be impatient with any length of fight. We have no desire to merely speed things up to increase their trophies per hour. We're talking about true PvP competitors, people who play arena to one day win.

[Master]

as long as the damage multiplier is increased I don't care...

Make is faster, make it slower, do as you will... As long as I can still hit just as my melee hits can still get the bonus of arena damage the same that a dotter or DD caster or BM can then so be it I soppose. However, don't think a gem will be fair unless its like the apoc, it effects ALL players and not just 1 side.. Im sure you are aware of how to make things fair so if you make changes im not worried....

However I still stand my ground on saying that nothing in a current arena should be changed.. this should be a "next arena" change. When a arena season starts, the way it started it should end with the same setup... Just my opinion, like you asked

[Master]

big issue is not arena is not regen IMO and in zvekans as well I think.. A issue is making tanks worthless as hell now and healers have much lower value as well too...

Not to mention both of those builds/classes mainly the tanker cant farm for crap, so they are just pretty much sitting ducks atm doing nothing with much wasted time/investment until your "next change" which is ok with me... I expected that to happen some point. The perks of having alts.

[Jadakris]

I really do like how people kind ignored the entire point of the thread.

It's really not that big of a nerf? You could adjust the cost accordingly, but lets face it.. there are auras to remove anti-gems, blind, to prevent stun/mes/daze.. and something to wipe the slate completely.. Gems like Flood and such don't have absurdly high costs and are available to all classes..

And even if the cost was 400/400 or 500/500 that is fine, you get the 20% reduction in cost anyhow.. and on Merrick's PvP suit he has something like 550 of each anyhow, and is practically impossible to drain (yet another thing that needs able to be countered Mana/Energy Regen.)

Also keep in mind that Merrick is a tank, who regens, and is beasty as hell. But unlike most people who are actually abusing the regen system atm, I Have a total of 4 regen gems.. so 4/42 so I have a 10% chance to draw a regen gem.. where as there are people with 4 Sacrigenesis, 4 sacrigen, 4 hypergen, 4 overgen etc etc..

And they can simply deft cast it back right after they are removed anyhow.. It has yet to be a problem for Merrick's team cause we have Cyress.. Apoc, Disable, KILL.

Other builds should have the opportunity to counter something that is so vastly used currently.

[Atropos]

Mana/Energy Regen

About mana energy regen, theres literaly no way to drain a caster with 400 ish Mre or Pre, Manatic or Energetic rune 5 or even 6 plus Ephoric rune combo... Drain gems are a fail against those unless u have a whole pouch of drains..., now i understand why Glitch didt buff Zyrco Brestplate back then when he buffed Earthfusions.

[Zaark]

Make one weapon lane with proc like this:

Applies an aura to target when hit, stopping all form of regeneration for X seconds.

or

Applies a stacking debuff on target when hit, every stack reduce regeneration by X and stack up to X times.


This would provide a way to kill regener and would bring back the old tank build along with two dps.

You want a tank to taunt others so they dont kill your dps who got the anti-regen weapon so he can bring down the other team regen.. and to counter that the other team will need to use the aoe dmg gems that just got added into the game. Then your own tank wont want to be 100% regen build, because other team may use the same anti-regen weapon and so he'll need to build with real def stats and you might get a real heal gem user in group.


My 2 cents, sorry for the bad english.

[Fatcheeser]

Ok I haven't posted in a long time because I got tired of this. The more I have looked at it, the more I realize that regen is not the problem. The problem with arena right now is the way that mitigation works with the damage bonus. Regen just adds to the issue of people who miti stack. The fact that all "bonuses" are multiplicative means that a guy stacking mitigation will start saving THOUSANDS of damage per hit in the arena later on. That doesn't make sense and is entirely unfair.

My solutions?
A) Make the arena bonus also lower the effectiveness of mitigation, so that if you cannot win the fight and actually kill your opponent, your bonus starts to degrade. This would work on all gear mitigation and potion mitigation, but NOT armor class mitigation.

B) Make the arena bonus have a SMALL, SMALL, SMALL, SMALL bearing on how much damage you deal. I emphasize SMALL again. It would be a SMALL bearing. This is because by the time the bonus kicks up to 800% or 1000% or whatever it goes to, even a small bonus to those that were dealing REAL damage the entire time will become a big deal. This would cause "glass cannon" builds that AE damage and hurt lots of people to run up their multiplier SLIGHTLY quicker. It would also cause the HEALER/DOTTER class that EVERY top 10 arena team (almost) has to be ineffective. If they have to heal the entire beginning of the fight they will not be able to deal as much damage at the end.

I will say this, arena is boring right now. The only "effective" teams are regen and healer. It's all about outlasting and allowing the damage bonus to do it for you. That is not exciting... Trying to find a way to waste 8-10 minutes of my real life time for 5 arena rating is dumb. There is no need for EVERY match between top 10 teams to last that long... Obviously something is wrong. Not to mention, this method gives huge boosts to the players who have multiple gear sets. As was already mentioned earlier, sitting around with regen, reading the news or sports page for 8 minutes, then having your tank actually taunt and your other 2 characters swap to damage and hoping to one shot the opposing team is not fun. Especially since EVERYONE mit stacks... Go look at the number of Timmy's on the server. Go look at the price of Earthfusion essence... Go look at the number of players who use stone / mitigation potions for the arena. The more I have seen and paid attention the more I realize that REGEN is not what's broken. The part that is broken is the way mitigation ratings factor into the arena damage bonus.

I have given my suggestions, bash away folks!! I know you will, luckily... I'm not going to read it. Best of luck finding a way to make the PvP in your game interesting again, Glitchless. If anyone wants to ask me about this post please do it in a PM. I am Fatcheeser, I'd be happy to talk to you about, that includes you Glitch =o

Best of luck folks. Hope you are having more fun in Nodiatis than I have lately.

[Sanluciferr]

Originally Posted by Atropos

About mana energy regen, theres literaly no way to drain a caster with 400 ish Mre or Pre, Manatic or Energetic rune 5 or even 6 plus Ephoric rune combo... Drain gems are a fail against those unless u have a whole pouch of drains..., now i understand why Glitch didt buff Zyrco Brestplate back then when he buffed Earthfusions.

Yes and no, you can pretty much drain mana/energy with thefts , vamps, mind numbing and the other, defoliate , lots of auras that drain , runes, etc and what does a caster can do?

Even with 400mre/pre , cast a mind numbing only 2 times and u have 60 draining of u every second without counting any other form of drains such a auras or runes if u get him in a bad situation with low mana or energy he will get stuck for a few, draw another of those in the next 20 seconds, hell to him u wanna know the main reason of why it will be hell? mainly cause he wont be able to theft anything even if he cast something cause either he will get resisted in somekind of form with all the anti gems means in the game OR simple as this, the oponent wont have any mana energy to drain due of sacri-gems with no upkeep cost fail that keep the people wiithout mana/energy but still regenering , lets face it .. do arena just 1 day and u will notice that AT LEAST without exaggerating 70% of the teams have 1-2 regeners or people with regeneration and regeneration gems ofc.

I challenge you to inspect cap toons in fa'ar or ustenar or t2 and check how many have regeneration, u only need about 250ish regen to make a huge impact with the runes, pets and gems.

How many counters does regeneration have?

Anyways back at Glitchless idea or concern I like to say that regeneration is not really an issue, is more of a bad idea than anything that could lead to a terrible concept like the one that i mentioned and i am sure we dont want that at all, i know you are always against nerfs and i respect that a lot too specially with the community that we have that they tend to get affected by changes or see every reduction as a bad thing... However i do like to suggest a more fun and less expected or predictable arena/pvp... i could spend many hours trying to suggest specifics but i would just say 2 specific things that in my honest opinion would help everyone:

First: People complain about not been able to farm when arena if they are tanks, thats an issue and have many solutions in which most of them are more expensive for them but why do we need a tank so badly? Taunts, taunts need a more viable way to be avoided or resisted, i was never a huge fan of aggravation. perhaps an aura? perhaps u already started to worry about it adding aoes attacks? perhaps it wont be enough? time will tell but i am still against the design of a tank being able to taunt pretty much all the time.

Second: Defense is a huge issue which goes together with the issue of taunts, it was an issue before and now is probably not a big issue and perhaps one of the reasons why you added the damage bonus in PvP, which was a nice fast fix but not too cool. Before it was known that if i team wanted to draw arena or stay alive in 10min it was so possible with heals and a tank and etc, since you added the PvP damage bonus that was fixed but in a bad way because you ignored or indirectly nerfed a lot of things such a healer that are almost not needed, maybe cool now with regeneration but later on who can heal a 1 hit? so that bonus caused a flaw , which was the one i mentioned in a post before, changing to full damage once it kick in everyone, take 1 target down before the others to define the fight, do we want to turn the strategy into the same move for everyone? why not give them a chance to kill asap?(u couldnt if they all go super defense regeners etc) why not give them a chance to 1 against 1 while 2 are against 1 or mixes and many of possibilities in the 3vs3 scenario if you know what i mean, everyone go for the 3 against one specific target, again your suggestion of bonus could increase chances of people going against different targets at the same time to cause more panic or more fast thinking/reactions solutions knowing that you added more aoes attacks together with the taunts possible counter aura?(careful with pks).

I dont know, is hard for me to explain exactly what i think specially due of the language barrier but i do like to believe that the focus should be in 1vs1 should be in that 1 super glassy class should be at least close enough to kill 1 super tanky class in terms of balance. That damage and Defense shouldn't have a huge gap in terms of %, which you mentioned something about the damage % that could be another solution as well.

I dont blame you if you dont read it all but this are just a few of my concerns and i could be wrong but i think what makes something more fun is something balanced and that can go either way, strategy will always be there but you will never know who will win , it will all depend on fast reactions and it will add more adrenaline rush, unexpected but could be controlled.

[Freakymagic]

IMO pvp WAS the best thing about nod, both arena and CB's/duels. ATM with how long each and every fight takes its boring. Having a fight (arena or cb) take 5+ min is not enjoyable. If it is a long fight simply because it is very evenly matched opponents that's fine. Generally its not going to be every match/cb. When its simply because 1 person or more have a bunch of reg and wait for the multiplier, its boring. Add to the fact that so many people are using regen, every fight takes forever to finish. Yes there are counters, last season my arena team used using reaper + gravebound and match's still lasted 5+ min's even when 2/3 of the other team died within the first min. Then its 3x toons beating up on 1 waiting for the multiplier to get big enough for them to die.

Anything to make PvP fun again (IMO it is not fun anymore) would be awesome. If that's something to make the multiplier quicker, nerf to reg, buff to other things, etc, etc... Bascially anything would be better then it is now

[Master]

I don't care what happens either. Again it should not happen this season tho.

For now I'll withdraw my offer to buy Timmies because I do feel that my build will be picked on soon... And that's ok, I'll roll with it and change to something else. Don't think I should need to change this season tho seems how I have modified and changed everything according to the current layouts.

[Jadakris]

Well this is my point, this is a viable counter.. and there are plenty more.. Not to mention the HP scale and HP regen scale is abit absurd it seems.. (high end ofcourse, due to epic skills and legendaries) but that is an entirely different issue.

Fact of the matter is our team can kill Thorin easily before the bonus kicks in now, all it takes is well timed apocs, and lucky stuns/dazes.. But if we fail to disable his gem draws, we have to go back to square one usually within 3-4 turns.. Which is my entire point of this suggestion, that process can happen 4-10 times before he actually bites the dust.. Staff-less builds should have an ample opportunity to achieve the same..