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Originally Posted by Destruction
I'll repost here what I posted on the other thread:
EDIT:My enchanting level is now 78 (1 exp till 79), I untrained the points I got using an unfair method. =)
Fyi, I don't give a crap what other people may think. I had a goal to untrain the experience I got from level 79 if it really did turn out to be a bug from the beginning when I posted this, and seeing as how this is the case, I have fulfilled my goal. Peace.
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How noble of you.
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Originally Posted by Faithfulservant
Real enchanters will simply delevel their enchanting level down to what it was before they ever used the bugged method. If they choose not to,then it is obvious that they value exp over proper game play.
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lol
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Enduir
It might not have been an exploit but it certainly was a bug. Using other combinations of resources you got a message telling you that you couldn't use 2 of the same resources type. Using 2 silks seems to be 2 of the same resource type.
PS I got my enchanting to lvl 78 without using the silk-silk method, it's really not that difficult, just as time consuming and a little more expensive.
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Wrong
2 resources like sticks, silk, ore, plants etc could be used together. Only the 100% resources [resources that gave the same stat every time] could not be used together.
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Ok Joking and incorrect information aside, I will reemphasize the problem.
(1) Unfair
The beacon of morality; the thread that intertwines to give rise to the very fabric of righteousness; the epitome of civilization itself; fair and balanced like Bill O' Reilly; such phrases can not begin to describe the magnanimous morality of Destruction and Faithfulservant.
However, I for one do not subscribe to the theory of moral universalism. In my opinion, morals vary from individual to individual. What one person perceives as a normal action might be sacrilegious in the eyes of a different individual.
What I am trying to say is this: there are many people who have increased their enchanting by utilizing this method; most of these people did not suffer from any moral quandary while increasing their enchanting skill in this manner. Thus, while Destruction's pangs of doubt might have led to a moral dilemma and bouts of depression, many of the other enchanters in the game, who used this method, still believe that their actions were perfectly legitimate.
Since there are people who leveled their enchanting in this manner, it is unfair to change it without resetting every player's enchanting skill. It is unfair to those of us who are working on our enchantment skill currently. In fact, it is a below the belt blow to most of the enchanters in Nodiatis.
(2) It was not a bug to begin with
Enchanting has worked in this manner from the beginning and many people, like the great Zenga himself, have used this method without ever thinking of it as an exploit. The truth is that I never thought of this as an exploit either; it was always a feature of Nodiatis for me.
Why I and many others never thought of this as a bug
I always pictured enchanting to work in 1 of 2 ways:
(1) using "100% materials"
(2) using "less than 100% materials"
Let me explain.
100% materials
Cons
These are generally more expensive. Because they are "100% materials", it is not permissible to use two of the same type. [There is really no point in using two of the same type because the enchanter would just end up with a blank stone even if it worked; thus I thought this was working as intended].
Pros
guaranteed results: for example: plank (100 % dur) and hides (100% mre) give a guaranteed +dur -mre stone
less than 100% materials
Cons
No guaranteed results. Most of the time, you have a 1/9 chance of getting the intended product. For example: silks can give pst mre and int and so a + int - mre stone would have a 1/3 * 1/3 = 1/9 chance of being made.
Pros
Cheaper
I, and many other people, always pictured the ability to use two of the same "less than 100% materials" as an inherent aspect of the "less than 100% material enchanting." I know that I always pictured it as being a trade off.
I still think of it in this way; I don't feel it is an exploit. This has been a part of Nodiatis since the inception of the game. One simply had to glance at the cheap int stones on the auction house in order to realize the sheer number of enchanters that were using this method without ever thinking of it as an exploit.
Conclusion: calling this a bug is simply ludicrous.
(3) Glitchless says that "it was being used as a slightly easier way to level enchanting." Just how much easier is it to level up enchanting via this method
Answer: not at all. Cheaper perhaps [you are still using up rt]; but not easier.
To show this mathematically:
Lets say that a person has 34 in enchanting and is working on 35.
This person can make + 11 stones.
Without accel + 11 stones give around 3 - 4k experience <== don't feel like calculating the exact value so lets call it 3.5k per stone made.
To increase enchanting skill from level 34 to level 35, this person needs 539,600 xp.
It takes around 10 seconds to make a stone after one presses the submit button on the enchanting rod. Add in the delay for putting the materials in the boxes and getting the materials and it is safe to say that this person can make 1 stone in every 20 seconds. For most people it will take longer than this.
This means that this person makes 5 stones in 1 minute.
5 (stones / minute) * 3500 (xp / stone) = 17500 xp per minute of rt.
539,600 xp / 17500 xp per minute = 30 minutes approximately (actual time will be higher for most people).
If a person is willing to use up to 30 minutes of rested time and work his/her tail off to make 150 stones, then they deserve the xp gain in my opinion. How is this an exploit.
Artistry and crafting skills are difficult enough to level as it stands. I see no sense in making them any harder to level up.
(4) "less than 100% resources" just became a lot more pointless
Since two spider silks can not be used now, scales and hides will be the best choice to make a +int -mre stone [int stones will now be less widely available and more expensive].
This patch basically took away a major incentive to use "less than 100% resources."
I see "less than 100% resources" being used a lot less often now. In essence, this patch diminishes an entire aspect of enchanting.
In conclusion
These are some of the major reasons for my opposition to this update. When I posted earlier, I was hoping to rally some support against this patch. With enough support, it might have been possible to revert it. However, comments from clueless people have made this a lot less plausible.
I will reiterate a suggestion of mine that could be a potential compromise:
Revert to the original version with the following alteration: whenever two materials, like spider silks result in a blank stone, make it so that the user gets no enchanting xp [a blank stone could be considered grey for everybody with a 4 or higher in enchanting]. This way, 1 out of 3 times, the silk user would get no xp whatsoever.
Even a 1/3rd xp penalty is harsh but it is better than the current version in my opinion. 
